Indy Sen

AMA: WeWork Former VP of Global Product Marketing, Indy Sen on Developing Your Product Marketing Career

July 23 @ 10:00AM PST
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Indy Sen
Indy Sen
Canva Ecosystem Marketing Leader | Formerly Google, Salesforce, Box, Mulesoft, WeWork, MatterportJuly 23
Influencing: You need the ability to inspire and drive cross-functional teams, often without any of the "authority". Cross matrixed orgs FTW, baby. Storytelling: You can turn a plot into a narrative (see answer above). You have a knack for finding that storytelling hook that gets to your why this solution, and why now? Positioning: You can distill a product's features and benefits into something that's aspirational and make the audience feel like this product is uniquely suited to their needs, and can even turn them into a better version of themselves. This is true whether you're marketing an iPhone or an Enterprise Service Bus. Curiousity: Stay hungry, stay foolish. You know you're doing a good job when you learn something new every day. 
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Indy Sen
Indy Sen
Canva Ecosystem Marketing Leader | Formerly Google, Salesforce, Box, Mulesoft, WeWork, MatterportJuly 23
That's a good question. I think it will vary based on when you start your career as a PMM and where. I've seen PMM leaders go on to be CMOs and founders, or successfully transition over to areas like product management and general management. In terms of roles/titles, you typically see a progression of the following type: Product Marketing Manager (PMM) Senior PMM Group PMM Director PMM, Senior Director VP Bigger firms like Google als have entry-level programs like the associate product marketing manager program (APMM) which are simply amazing and help you figure out whether that path is right for you. Bottom line, there's a lot of optionality for a PMM to go on to larger management or entrepreneurial roles because the role is so cross functional to begin with. 
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What are some things one can do outside of their job to accelerate their career in product marketing?
Are there certain certifications, courses, volunteer work, etc. that are beneficial for a product marketer to pursue outside of their normal work?
Indy Sen
Indy Sen
Canva Ecosystem Marketing Leader | Formerly Google, Salesforce, Box, Mulesoft, WeWork, MatterportJuly 23
Such a great question. I think the best thing you can do invest in yourself and "sharpen the saw". This is especially critical earlier in your career. A couple of approaches: 1.) Read - My mom has this saying: Books are like software updates for your brain. Yes, not all business books are spell-binding page turners, but you'll quickly see that your brain will free associate and you'll draw on differents nuggets, often at opportune times. I've stumbled on frameworks for example that helped chart the course for a GTM, or quotes that set the entire tone for a keynote. And it's not just business books, but stuff like sociology, psychology and even biographies. Fiction is also great because of the rich storytelling aspects, narrative arcs. If you find an author whose writing you love, read everything she's written because it will make you a better communicator. 2.) Watch - Ted Talks, Superbowl ads, Saturday Night Live, it's all good--really. As a marketer I think it's really important to have your pulse on the zeitgeist and pop culture. This is advice I received from Danielle Morrill, an early Twilio employee, and while it felt self-indulgent and non-intuitive at first, it does help you come up with stuff that feels relatable. You're often just a good meme or pop culture reference away from making an idea stick. Podcasts are great for this too. 3.) Speak - "Every time you speak, you are auditioning for leadership". This is a quote from James Humes, a former presidential speechwriter. The more you can dial into your authentic self and the earlier you get confident expressing your ideas in public settings, the better you will be at your job. People often have this reflexive "I suck at public speaking" fear, but all speaking is public speaking. Steve Jobs used to maniacally rehearse his keynotes. Marc Benioff starts his next big idea keynotes with a kernel that he first peppers into customer meetings or smaller settings and then continuously tweaks until it's Dreamforce ready. So do Toastmasters, or jump at opptys to represent your company at conferences. Speaking is a muscle and one that will make you stronger as a marketer. 4. ) Courses: You can and should definitely take courses as well. Business school is obviously a popular option, and it helped moved the needle in my career as a career-switcher--but it's also expensive, which is why I started with some of the ideas above as they are more accessible and practical. Many employers offer e-learning options like Lynda, or in person classes as well. At Google, I goaled myself on taking at least one or two of these a quarter because to me, it felt like it was part of our compensation package--why wouldn't you do it?
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Indy Sen
Indy Sen
Canva Ecosystem Marketing Leader | Formerly Google, Salesforce, Box, Mulesoft, WeWork, MatterportJuly 23
No doubt your product, its value props and your audience will change from company to company. What doesn't change however is your job to be done as a product marketer, and the role you get to play. No matter what organization I've been part of, PMM has always sat at the intersection of product, sales and marketing. Now you might get pulled in one direction or the other depending on the company (see answer above) but on any given day, you are the only person this side of a GM that will be as close to all three of those functional areas. So my advice to you is to perfect your ability to service each of these three functions by building the muscle memory and pattern matching to meet and anticipate their needs. That's something that will help you navigate your next job, any job, should you choose to jump ship. Specifically: * For Product, become their trusted advisor. Learn and master how to support the product lifecycle end to end with market research to test product hypotheses, naming, pricing, packaging, positoning to GTM etc. Be prescriptive about what needs to get done for the product to succeed in market. Remember that while product and engineering may come up with the plot, product marketing delivers the narrative. And it has to be a two way conversation, because just like with movies, one does not work without the other. * With Sales, especially in the enterprise, you need to be sale’s best friend. That means equipping them to have the best and most meaningful and authentic conversations with customers via killer assets and training programs. * As for marketing, you’re the quarterback, the router of information and single source of truth when it comes to messaging. You provide the messaging primitives and content backbone as well as go/no-go guidance on which channels to activate and how.
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What advice do you have for a current product marketing manager who's looking to grow his/her career in product marketing?
What type of opportunities should current product marketers seek out in order to best position themselves to lead the product marketing function at a company?
Indy Sen
Indy Sen
Canva Ecosystem Marketing Leader | Formerly Google, Salesforce, Box, Mulesoft, WeWork, MatterportJuly 23
See my answer here in terms of what can help you personally grow as a PMM. In terms of moving up the ranks, the journey is probably similar to other marketing roles where beyond a certain level, you need to go from being an IC (individual contributor) to being a manager. To grow as an IC, and if that's your speed (management, despite the fancy titles, is not for everyone), you need to develop subject matter expertise and the reputation as a someone who is the best at x, y, z. Product marketing is a small circle as well--if you were to ask me or anyone in my profession who the best partner marketer in the Bay Area was, or the best sales enablement person in tech that you could poach, we'd probably draw from the same list. Within a company, scoring those early and visible wins as an IC will get you even higher visibility work, and continuously delivering on that is what typically gets you promoted To grow as a manager or even become one, you need to demonstrate span of control, meaning that the work that you're doing requires further investment of headcount and resources and organizational endorsement. If that comes with your purview, then showing results and consistently delivering while developing a reputation as a manager who is a multiplier is typically what will get you ahead. If you do not have that remit, then it's something you need to make a case for, but be warned, it's not always that easy. Everyone and their mother is asking for resources, especially at startups. At Box and at MuleSoft, we ended up getting more investment because we delivered some really innovative programs and launches on the developer side of the business that made the companies look good. Once you can demonstrably show that your GTM operations are engendering a fly-wheel of success, one that can spin faster the more you put into it, resources and growth will come to you. 
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Indy Sen
Indy Sen
Canva Ecosystem Marketing Leader | Formerly Google, Salesforce, Box, Mulesoft, WeWork, MatterportJuly 23
Yes, in my experience there are definitely a few org considerations that will shape your fortunes as a PMM, and navigating those will determine whether you're set up for success. 1. The first, as you allude to is the function you report into. I've been in orgs where PMM has been in marketing, product or sales. IMO, PMM should always be part of marketing because, while you're no doubt deeply embedded with the latter two functions, you are by definition a marketer and need to be evaluated as such. The problem with being in product or sales orgs is that your contributions--while appreciated--will not be top of mind when it comes to calibration and performance assessment. And that's just physics--a PM leader will likely dole out comp and stock refreshes to the top PM talent they want to retain. Ditto with sales, which can be an even harder case to make as performance is quota based and you are the "cost center". Note that it's fine and even a good idea to be dotted to product/sales. 2. The second is more company specific, and has to do with the dominant company culture. You've probably heard of companies that are more sales centric, or others where engineering is "king". Now you can do amazing work as a marketer at either one of these, and grow your skillset commensurately, but do pay attention to how "valued" marketing really is as that's what will ultimately affect your long term growth trajectory. Things to watch out for: PMM viewed as a "service bureau" i..e "so we're launching this product in 3 weeks and need a blog post" or if you feel stuck constantly doing reactive and ad hoc work vs fleshing out programs and shaping strategy. As you can tell there's a bunch of situational stuff and pattern matching you should try and stock of as quickly as you can. But if you're at least confident that you're set up for success from a reporting and cultural standpoint, then the rest is up to you. And that's the fun part.
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Indy Sen
Indy Sen
Canva Ecosystem Marketing Leader | Formerly Google, Salesforce, Box, Mulesoft, WeWork, MatterportJuly 23
It's really the following three functions: product, sales and the greater marketing team. You will regularly interface with these three, and depending on the company will be deeply embedded with product and sales. The one way I see this changing is that businesses increasingly need to bring B2D aka Business to Developer sensibilities to the fore. Think about how so many companies are becoming "platform companies" and that means that product marketing will also need to supporters stakeholders such as Dev Rel and/or BD who interface with developers and partners respectively. I heard the other day APIs being described as self-service BD for companies, and that really rings true in this day and age. Every company is either sitting on a data asset or has a customer base that others want to plug into. As a PMM, your ability to market your wares and interop frameworks and making internal stakeholders on that side of the house equally as successful as sales and product will be increasingly important. 
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