AMA: Notion Head of Product Marketing, John Hurley on Scaling Product Marketing

One approach to proactively identifying areas where PMM can add value is to conduct a thorough analysis of the market, competitors, and customers. This includes identifying gaps in the market and opportunities to differentiate, understanding the competitive landscape, and gathering insights on customer needs, preferences, and behaviors. Some questions to consider when conducting this analysis include: * What are the key trends and challenges in the market? * What are the biggest unmet customer needs and pain points? * How do our competitors position themselves and differentiate? * What are our key strengths and weaknesses as a business? * How can we leverage our strengths to address unmet customer needs and differentiate in the market? By answering these questions, you can identify areas where PMM can make the biggest impact and develop strategies to address these areas. It's important to keep in mind that the analysis should be an ongoing process, as markets and customer needs are constantly evolving.

The biggest thing Ive seen is a Product team that does not have awareness or subject matter expertise in GTM fundamentals, or genuine curiosity coupled with critical thinking / first principles for assessing the market. If PMs think PMMs job is to just release product and don't understand the complexity involved in integrated launches then it's a real struggle. If PMs and EMs dont understand the fundamentals of the business – GTM models and motions, target audiences, and team roles and structures – it is an uphill battle from the start. Here are a few things I share with my team on building an impactful relationship with product teams. How to build an impactful relationship with product teams? * SME to support and inform product strategy and planning: Buyer, competitive and ecosystem, market research, pipeline and customer data, segmentation, product. * Make their products successful: NPI, launches, P&P, goal setting & reporting, release marketing, AR/PR, field support (ex. help sales close deals, sales and PMs will love you). * Bridge to GTM: Communicating roadmap and vision, thematic messages quarter/year, CABs, aligning priorities of the business and GTM as an input. * Understanding PDLC: Know how PD teams work, processes and how PMM supports/influences/operationalizes the PDLC.

When working in an Enterprise company's Product Marketing team, it is important to have a clear understanding of how to split up responsibilities. One approach is to divide PMMs (Product Marketing Managers) based on the products they handle. This allows each PMM to focus solely on their product and become an expert in it. Another approach is to split PMMs based on regions. This can be useful if the company operates in multiple regions and requires localized marketing efforts. Alternatively, PMMs can be split up based on projects they work on. This approach can be useful if there are several projects running simultaneously, as it allows each PMM to focus on a specific project and give it their full attention. Another approach is to divide PMMs based on teams, which can be beneficial if the company has multiple teams each working on different aspects of the product. Ultimately, the best approach may be a mixture of these methods. It is important to consider the needs of the company and the product when deciding on the best way to divide responsibilities within the Product Marketing team.

I like to frame questions in two parts. 1) Walk me through (WMT) an example of...XYZ. I do several of these that each map to the key responsibilities I'm looking for. I want to hear real-life stories – both for experience and ability to articulate. This was inspired by my product partner at Amplitude. Great article here: https://runthebusiness.substack.com/p/wmt-interview-questions 2) Follow the WMT question with some form of why, what did you learn, what would you have done differently? Somethings they answer this in #1. But I want to get into the first principles thinking, self-awareness, and ability to iterate on thinking on the fly. Finally, a fun one. I always ask for "What are your PMM brand crushes?" Who do they look to for inspiration? If they dont have any, they're not engaged enough in their work for the types of highly engaged teams Iike to build.

When scaling from 5 PMMs to 20+ PMMs, it becomes increasingly important to have a well-defined team structure and organization. One approach is to ladder individuals into verticals based on their area of ownership and area of expertise. As the team grows, it may be necessary to have discipline leads and managers to help with collaboration and alignment. Here is a simple little progression: How PMM teams grow and mature over time… * Generalists (with some diversity but broad and deep ownership and expertise). Can be SMEs or just great PMMs depending on product. * Generalists with product ownership and disciplines * Product (vertical) and GTM (horizontals) PMMs, each owning some discipline. * Product and GTM and Discipline (horizontal and vertical; ex Competitive, release, AR, P&P). Discipline become a hub for specific work types (shared service). * Product broken into Core and new Products with managers…and rest gets custom from there. The decision to have a manager versus a collection of individual contributors (ICs) depends on the needs of the team. Generally, once a team reaches a certain size, it becomes necessary to have managers in order to provide leadership, direction, and support for the team. However, it's important to consider the specific needs of the team and the individuals involved when making this decision.

Good question. Constant tension. Don't abandon the consumer, but focus on where do we make money (b2b). Find the right investments and channels that will support the consumer (community, influencer, social, specific time-relevant consumer campaigns like 'Back to School' or 'New Year Resolutions'), but we focus 80% of time on B2B audiences and use cases because that's the core of the business. Only once we really feel we have the B2B side nailed do we think about the consumer side. Whenever possible, we look at the assets we develop for say a big launch, and we ask whether or not this product or use case has consumer value and does the asset and message speak to both B2B and consumer.